Lower Premiums, Stronger Businesses: How Health Insurance Reform Will Bring Down Costs for Small Businesses

Sure dude, adding a trillion dollars to the deficit is really going to help small businesses. Oh that little old inflation thing? By by small business capital.

space guy - Get real, prove it.

Sure dude, adding a trillion dollars to the deficit is really going to help small businesses

You've got to spend money to make money, Spaceguy, and unlike Bush's tax cuts these dollars will have a plan.

You've got to spend money to make money

Only if your small business, and that isn't working for us now.

Government spends money and makes their money How? That's right, off the small business.

So I guess, government needs to start spending our money on small business, instead of shoring themselves up.

space guy - Get real, prove it.

Easy, adding $1 trillion to the deficit is only done in one of two ways.

1. Borrowing from the Chinese or whoever.

2. Printing money.

If we borrow from China, then we are vunerable when they are dumping products on us in that we have no effective means of fighting it unless we want to give up that money, which ends healthcare for all as well as small business when the dollar collapses.

If we continue to print money, we will have massive inflation, like we did in the 70's. I don't know if you remember but small business interest rates were around 20% during that period. That will completely wipe out any profits in small business and result in far fewer of them, with the resulting job losses and loss of economic output.

You've got to spend money to make money, Spaceguy, and unlike Bush's tax cuts these dollars will have a plan.

For the government to spend money, they first have to either take it from me or you, borrow it from China, or print it on the printing presses. None of these three options improves the national economy for more than the temporary period before these policies bankrupt the nation in a similar fashion to the road that we were on in 1979.

Greg and Space Guy

Read This.......

http://epi.3cdn.net/0495cc1ebaab73ee64_qhm6bne4l.pdf

Greg - This may be a blessing in disguise for you and your business......now if construction would only pick up......

After reading the report, it seems that the solution would be to allow greater competition by allowing insurance companies to sell policies across state lines, therefore diversifying their risk pool.

This is a much better idea than a trillion dollars worth of new government spending that will drive interest rates through the roof and run millions of small businesses out of business.

For the government to spend money, they first have to either take it from me or you, borrow it from China, or print it on the printing presses

And then the money the government takes goes BACK to me or you, because money moves in loops. It all depends upon what the money is being spent, which is hopefully something worthwhile, like health care reform.

@ btco;

I swear, you must read my mind.

I was reading that yesterday! WOW.

It would be nice if States would set mandates the same, so Insurance companies could compete. Those silly Mandates are another fight, that will be between States.

Now, Construction Start ups is another matter!

space - Oh please, no freaking way would that work. Did that with credit cards. Did your rate decline? Nope. In fact all it did was allow companies to organize in the states with the most beneficial laws. Second problem their are only a few carriers that control a larger portion of the market already. This is an insurance CEO's wet dream, nothing more.

space - Oh please, no freaking way would that work

Oh really. It worked with car insurance, why not health insurance?

Even Democrats say that the Pelosi bill will hurt small businesses.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/One-Blue-Dog-jumps-away-from-Pelosi-bill--67614827.html

space guy,

You are correct on crossing state lines. It's interesting that so many want to criticize the Republicans and accuse them of just saying no, but yet they praise this article and the ideas.

Reality is that congressman Shadegg has proposed a bill with many of the items listed in this article in his bill. Everyone agrees that we need reform, the argument is how much. Shadegg's bill shows how we can accomplish reform, have competitive premium pricing and lowering costs, without costing us a penny. Yet it is the Democrats who are refusing to even allow his bill to the floor for discussion and are slowly putting some of the ideas from his bill in the Pelosi plan, but on steroids.

space - an op-ed? It may be something you agree with, but where are the facts that show a small business will pay more?

http://www.newamerica.net/files/Policy%20Paper%20Across%20State%20Lines%20Explained.pdf

This explains the realities of selling insurance across state lines. This is not the pretty fantasy that these insurance companies are trying to sell you guys.

Selling health insurance across state lines would not work as advertised and would make it harder and more expensive for many Americans to access health coverage, according to a new report released today by the New America Foundation.

The New America report, entitled, "Across State Lines Explained: Why Selling Health Insurance Across State Lines is Not the Answer," found that under across state lines proposals premiums would increase for many people, health insurance benefits would become less generous, and more Americans would likely become uninsured over time.

"Selling health insurance across state lines would have a devastating impact on the health insurance marketplace and will not work for many Americans. This approach fails to introduce the incentives necessary to move insurers to a 21st Century business model that prioritizes care coordination and high value care over marketing and underwriting," said Len M. Nichols, Director of the Health Policy Program at the New America Foundation and coauthor of the report.

"In fact, selling health insurance across state lines represents a step backwards not only for the health insurance marketplace, but also and more importantly for the American people who struggle everyday to secure quality, affordable coverage," Nichols continued.

btco

It worked for car insurance, it will work for health insurance. Also, I looked up your new America Foundation.

American Strategy Program Director Steve Clemons interviewed Hamas leader Khaled Meshal at his office in Syria, asking questions that included Meshal's vision for a united Palestine, how Hamas is different from other Islamic fundamentalist and Salafist groups, and his advice for President Obama in efforts at Mideast peace.

These guys support Hamas. Nothing more needs to be said about where they are coming from.

space guy

The only way the across state lines thing will work is if we make all the states have the same rules in regard to health insurance. In some states the pre-existing condition look back period is 12 months, meaning that is as far as they can go back to try and say something is pre-existing. Now in my state of Nevada there is NO limit to the look back period, meaning they can go back to my teenage years or before to label just about anything pre-existing. In some states you can not be charged more for those pre-existing conditions but in nevada you can be charged 70% more and in a few states it is even higher up to 400%.

across state lines would not help those that have been denied coverage without overhauling the health insurance system rules. There are still many people who do not realize that there are different rules for group and individual health insurance.

The only way the across state lines thing will work is if we make all the states have the same rules in regard to health insurance. In some states the pre-existing condition look back period is 12 months, meaning that is as far as they can go back to try and say something is pre-existing.

It worked for auto insurance, it will work for healthcare as well. Auto insurance had all the same issues, and look at what happened. Last week I checked and 3 out of every 7 commercials on TV were from another insurance company proclaiming how much cheaper they were than the other guy.

Small business that can't afford to offer health insurance will be FINED on top of not being able to afford it. Individuals will also be fined for not having insurance.

small business will not get hit unless they have employees

if they hire contract labour the "contract" worker is self employed and responsible for all health care requirements.

no win for the working man here.

small business will not get hit unless they have employees

In that case I would fire everyone and bring them back as contractors. They will get 1099's instead of W2's, and will be responsible for all their own taxes. I won't have to pay their matching on SS or the workmans compensation.

This is the only way a small business can survive such twaddle.

Exactly space guy. It's only going to create a huge mess. Even then, this loop hole will be closed sooner or later and they'll be required to offer insurance to contractors, or be fined for having contracted employee's to evade being fined.

The only businesses that will be fined if they do not provide health insurance are those with payroll over 500k. A business with that much in payroll is not that small. I work in a true mom and pop small business where even the owners do not have insurance because of the cost and not being allowed to pool with other businesses and the only thing this will do for us is help us to provide insurance if we so choose.

The fear mongering and outright lies have got to stop.

I am general American public with a full time job and this will help me as I am currently uninsured and suffering every day due to a pre-existing condition.

The fine for individuals is actually incredibly low. I make 30k per year and my fine would be 750.00 for the year. My last premium quote from UHC was 400.00 per month.

Just because you do not trust the government does not mean they are always telling lies. You need to be wary of course, but down right cynicism helps no one.

People need to read the bills for themselves and there is no way that you read it, or you would not be saying that it will hurt small business. That is a fact.

And before someone complains about the bill being 2k pages, keep in mind that the brochure from UHC for the policy on one healthy 14 year old child is 90 pages long.

In that case I would fire everyone and bring them back as contractors. They will get 1099's instead of W2's, and will be responsible for all their own taxes. I won't have to pay their matching on SS or the workmans compensation.

been my buisness model for years and years

this loop hole will be closed sooner or later and they'll be required to offer insurance to contractors

not gonna happen.

unless we outlaw being self employeed that hole will always remain

even when I was young I refused employment over contract work for the simple fact I could write off a percentage 25% of my home utilities, maint, improvements, mortgage, insurance and tax's for "business use" and still do.

In that case I would fire everyone and bring them back as contractors. They will get 1099's instead of W2's,

That's a legal pretense that can be easily seen through. Calling an employee an independent contractor can get you in a world of @!$%#.

That's a legal pretense that can be easily seen through. Calling an employee an independent contractor can get you in a world of @!$%#.

only if your not telling the truth.

make them buy their own tools and be responsible for their work "no supervision" and no pay until the job is done right.

make them pay for training them - if required.

bottom line is if a lawyer can provide a service and bill by the hour - so can anyone doing any service. even if they only bring a broom to sweep a floor - gotta love "right to work" states :)

In that case I would fire everyone and bring them back as contractors.

You're never going to hang on to competent employees that way, especially not after insulting them in that way.

The only businesses that will be fined if they do not provide health insurance are those with payroll over 500k. A business with that much in payroll is not that small.

Horsepucky. In my business three engineers are enough to go over that amount.

The ".gov" at the end of the seeded link should be enough to make you gag.

JRB, thanks for showing us where you are coming from. You evidently are simply anti-government, no matter what the bill states.

You're never going to hang on to competent employees that way, especially not after insulting them in that way.

contract workers get many write off's not available to the employed as mentioned above.

not to mention writing off every single mile driven to and from work.

mileage alone will more than cover the new "fine" for not having health care

If contractors' tax write-offs were so great, everyone would be doing it. Present rates for individual health insurance policies are RIDICULOUS because insurance companies want a 95%+ chance of making money on you.

Also, those extra write offs are only available to you if you itemize deductions. That's a lot of gas and cleaning supplies. It works for some but not so well for most small independent contractors.

Update

I previously stated that my last premium quote was 400 per month. well when I attempted to accept that quote they said it had changed and that I was now denied. I was told not to bother applying again, ever, to any company as the result would be the same.

I don't care who controls health care as long as every one has equal access to it.

Businesses with less than 500k in payroll won't even be required to offer health insurance, but they will get tax credits if they decide to do so anyway.

And they'll get fined, fee'd and or taxed to death, if they don't.

Have you seen the "Required to have insurance" statement?

"Why not just pay the 750.00 fine?"

Believe it or not a lot of us out here with no coverage actually want it and are very willing to buy it, but no one will sell it to us at a price we can afford, if at all. I personally do not care one little bit who I pay my premiums to as long as what I get in return is fare, affordable coverage and this is not possible in our current system.

Current house bill caps premiums at 12% of income. UHC quote for me was almost 17% of my gross income and I would have to wait at least 12 months before I could actually use it for my illness. That is a decrease in premium of at least 5% for me and I wouldn't have to spend a year getting sicker before I could get care.

newsvine double posting today.

Believe it or not a lot of us out here with no coverage actually want it and are very willing to buy it, but no one will sell it to us at a price we can afford, if at all. I personally do not care one little bit who I pay my premiums to as long as what I get in return is fare, affordable coverage and this is not possible in our current system.

My wife and I just signed up for personal blue from Blue Cross for $178 per month each.

If I had no pre-existing condition mine would be affordable also, but I do have a pre-existing condition so 400 per month with a 5k deductable and 60% co-insurance in network and 70% co-insurance out of network is the best available for me in Nevada.

What state are you in?

Are you people assuming that if you pay for health care under this new plan that you will have first dollar 100% coverage? I assure you, you will not. There will still be exclusions. There will still be deductibles.

For someone like me $995 per month for insurance for myself and husband with NO pre-existing conditions, no health problems and no medications, I would GLADLY pay the $750 penalty and buy insurance once I have a "problem". Instead, I pay almost $12000 a year and DON'T NEED Coverage at this point in time. Imagine, if I had been putting that into an IRA for the last 15 years! So, you see, this issue cuts both ways. I don't WANT to buy full coverage, but my employer doesn't give the option of TAKING a deductible

You've only got another week or so to look, so hurry up. I've been trying to go through it myself. The Sections that keep sending you back to past rules, is driving me nuts. I don't have enough time, before they vote.

Spent two hours last night and one hour this morning.

Where does a person find the rules that are being referred?

I'll get that for you but I have to re-find it! Damn!

The IRS section of the bill refers back to IRS Section rules as old as 1987, which refer to newer rules, then referes to newer rules, and so on and so on and so on. That's just one section. I still have a ton of pages to read.

That is why it is 2k pages long. It takes a lot of words to change or amend a past law and just as many to put in a new one. I counted pages in my daughters united health care plan book and it was 90 pages for a simple HMO for a 14 year old healthy child so a bill to insure 36 million people and implement new rules on an entire industry is bound to be really long.

I started with the summary pages at this link from the education and labor committee in the house. It won't give you the legalese but if you read these first it does make the long version easier to read. Scroll down the page and click on the blue lettering.

http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/10/affordable-health-care.shtml